(no subject)

[p0tat0es]

I basically have no knowledge of Portugese whatsoever. What function does the tilde serve over o and a?

Comments

[petit-chou.livejournal.com]

The tilde represents a "nasalized vowel" and is just like any other accented vowel in that it has it's own distinct sound. According to one source I found, "the most distinguishing feature of Portuguese spelling is the use of tildes on vowels (ã), which indicates nasalization in certain diphthongs. This accounts for the fact that some Portuguese words (e.g. São Paulo) sound like they contain the letter n when they really don't. The tilde occurs exclusively in diphthongs (e.g. ãe, ão, õe), and is not always printed, but it's still easy to recognize these diphthongs and infer that the sounds should be nasalized."

[p0tat0es.livejournal.com]

Not having ever heard a Portugese speaker say "São", it's hard for me to imagine what "s-a-o" sounds like with an implied "n" sound.

[ex-caracola454.livejournal.com]

Just say it like you're from New Jersey.

[p0tat0es.livejournal.com]

"SeAoW PAWWWL-oh"

Aye lassie, tis a frightening prospect, that.

</shudders>

[illscientist.livejournal.com]

*draws pistols*

[ex-caracola454.livejournal.com]

them's fightin' words?
;-)

[petit-chou.livejournal.com]

It's a bit hard to explain a sound through text, particuarly if you can't read IPA. So have you never heard someone speak Portuguese, or just never identified that sound as the tilde'd vowel? If you've ever seen Love Actually or listened to any good Brasilero music (Jobim, for example), you can hear the sound. There's a good, understandable description of nasalized vowel sounds here (http://www.garretwilson.com/education/languages/hindi/devanagari/lesson5/candrabindu.html) (though it's for a different language, the concept of nasalization is the same -- check out the third paragraph).

Does that help at all?

[p0tat0es.livejournal.com]

If pressed, I could tell spoken Portugese from spoken Spanish, but what kind of Portugese or Spanish would be beyond me. And I sold my Getz/Gilberto CD cuz I was broke. Gah.

[ex-caracola454.livejournal.com]

THat is an excellent explanation. In historical sound change, there actually was an "n" between those now dipthonged vowels... Like in the Spanish "mano" which is "mão" in Portuguese.

Incidentally, the little carrot hat you see in French in words like "fête" represents where an "s" used to be in the corresponding older form (Lat. festum, It. festa).

[p0tat0es.livejournal.com]

Well I'll be. The mano/mão example makes sense to me as far as pronunciation - almost like there's a 'hump' (nasalization) between the "ah" and "oh" sounds?

[ex-caracola454.livejournal.com]

Exactly! The humping you describe is actually the raising of your velum, a fleshy piece of, um, flesh in the back of your throat that we use to make nasals.

(I'm so happy you asked this question---it makes me feel like I haven't wasted the last three years of my life studying phonetics.)

[p0tat0es.livejournal.com]

It's a noble endeavor. In fact, as soon as I'm done will all this rock & roll hoo-ha, I may ramble down that same road.

[petit-chou.livejournal.com]

Man, all this talk of velums (vela?) is getting me hot. I miss school a lot and I especially miss my linguistic classes.