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p0tat0es
A protester lies dead on the road after being shot by Italian police during rioting in central Genoa July 20, 2001. Police fired live rounds, tear gas and used water cannons in an attempt to disperse the thousands of protestors who are demonstrating against the G8 summit.
'borrowed' from Go2Net.com
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no subject
Date: 2001-07-20 03:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-07-20 08:26 pm (UTC)does that somehow make it o.k. that this boy is dead?
no subject
Date: 2001-07-20 08:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-07-21 08:23 pm (UTC)That boy killed himself, as surely as if his own finger had pulled the trigger. What do you think would have happened had that mob succeeded in pulling those policemen out of their jeep?
no subject
Date: 2001-07-22 11:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-07-22 12:01 pm (UTC)And, consider the situation. 1 man laying in the back of a jeep, one man standing outside, very close to the vehicle, the only targets would have been from the upper torso, up. What's he going to do, get up, lean out the window, and aim for a leg? Also, you're assuming that the policeman had some form of non-lethal defense at his disposal.
This was a bad situation, all the way around, and demonizing the police serves no useful purpose. Maybe the shooting was justified, maybe it was not, nobody knows except the people who were there. All that I do know is that, in my opinion, that boy was participating in activities that go beyond the scope of reasonable demonstration. He was threatening other lives, and was putting himself in harm's way. He paid the price.
Re:
Date: 2001-07-23 12:34 am (UTC)I believe policemen are required to carry non-lethal defense, so it should have been at his disposal.
"...demonizing the police serves no useful purpose"
Did you happen to see this on your evening news?
Cell phone call ins, and indy reports are keeping us updated with events from Genova. An hour ago, POLICE STORMED the building that hosted the IMC with tear gas and batons, and the building opposite that hosted other GSF groups. About ten people escaped from windows. The police held people and took IDs. According to the medics on the scene, there have been approximately 20 seriously injured people from police violence. Corporate media have been reporting 3 dead, but those reports have NOT been confirmed, and medics said this was not true. Blood which stained the streets outside the imc quickly disappeared. Numbers of people arrested have not been relased yet The school opposite the IMC building was where the worst police violence occured. Floors are covered in blood. Police assault lasted over 45 minutes. Several people have been carried out in black bags. The people in the street were chanting en masse "fascist" and "bastardo". The wounded were carried out on strechers continuously and taken to ambulances that arrived with the police. Police sealed off street by surprise and a helicopter remained low overhead like a military operation. A temporary hospital was set up on the 1st floor of the IMC building to treat wounded.
Full story here (http://www.indymedia.org/)
no subject
Date: 2001-07-23 02:17 pm (UTC)I'm talking about this specific incident which, to me, appears within the realms of justification. And, again, appears to be. No one who wasn't there has enough information to make any kind of judgement.
As soon as it turns violent, situations like that stop becoming a clash of politics, and start being a clash of individuals.
Re:
Date: 2001-07-23 05:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-07-23 01:25 am (UTC)the success or failure of this riot control exercise certainly did not hinge on this one officer or his personal decision to use lethal force when everyone else seemed to have no problem following their orders and maintaining non-lethal levels. this boy was part of a body of rioters. these officers were a part of a body of riot controllers. this one cop took it upon himself to kill this boy, to act as judge, jury, and executioner even when his superiors and the goverening body at large both decided to use non-lethal force. this cop was fuckin wrong.
it is not up to you to decide what is excessive protest and it was not up to that officer.
at some point in all this, these riot officers decided to shoot someone so they could make their getaway. it is likely that if they had the time to formulate a plan of action and then shoot someone while sitting in the drivers seat at point blank range, that there was time to point it somewhere other then this mans head.
the head is a very small target, it moves around alot, and it is round. it does not make a good target and it takes effort to hit it, either at a distance or at close range.
a gunshot wound to the head is a malicious act, especially at close range. it takes an effort. it is extremely hard to do accidentally.
it sure as hell wasn't within the cops scope of operation to collect on the payment you say that boy owed.
it's policemen and people in power with your kind of attitude that manufacture dead boys in streets all around the world.
no subject
Date: 2001-07-23 02:34 pm (UTC)it is not up to you to decide what is excessive protest and it was not up to that officer.
It is absolutely up to me to decide, and for you to decide. Violent protest damages the cause of peaceful protest. It relegates all of the protesters to the level of violent thugs, in many minds. It is self defeating, and wrong.
it's policemen and people in power with your kind of attitude that manufacture dead boys in streets all around the world. You make assumptions about my politics, which are incorrect. You do the spirit of protest a disservice by holding this thug up as some kind of martyr.
no subject
Date: 2001-07-23 04:01 pm (UTC)that cop killed a protestor against his superiors orders, against the orders of the government, and against the spirit of non-lethal protest. that cop turned this into something brutally deadly. that cop. only him. nobody else. just this one single cop. how many cops were killed in these riots? none. what does that mean? gee i wonder.
being a riot control cop isn't like some hippie dippie episode of Lethal Weapon man. they are soldiers. soldiers follow orders. when soldiers dont follow orders then people die. period.
last i checked the protestors didn't have firearms or handguns and that boy was no exception.
and no man, i'm not making assumptions about your politics. it's really unfortunate, but i'm not. listen to yourself. you sound like a maniac trying to defend a screwed up position.
You make assumptions about my politics, which are incorrect. You do the spirit of protest a disservice by holding this thug up as some kind of martyr.
please tell us all about your politics so we don't make any more assumptions. tell us about how its okay for cops to kill or brutalize protestors at their discression, and tell us about how government relegated protest is an efficient form of protest. tell us how its your right to decide whether or not protestors live or die based solely upon what you believe is a 'suitable' amount of demonstration. and please tell me where i'm making assumptions here. and remember when phrasing your answers, please do so as if you are adressing this boys mother, his family, his friends, etc...
this isn't about thugs and martyrs. this is about protest. non-lethal action in direct opposition to a committed wrong. this boy was protesting. that cop shot him for his ideas. please explain how that makes it right.
It is absolutely up to me to decide. Violent protest damages the cause of peaceful protest. It relegates all of the protesters to the level of violent thugs, in many minds. It is self defeating, and wrong.
okay, so explain to me again how this cop is the champion of non-lethal protest by shooting this boy again? i'm very confused at this part. waitaminute... this guy wasn't a protestor, he was just a thug right?
and yes i'll say it again
it's policemen and people in power with your kind of attitude that manufacture dead boys in streets all around the world.
no subject
Date: 2001-07-20 06:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-07-20 08:42 pm (UTC)i'm going to cry or puke.
or both.
all i can say is:
Date: 2001-07-21 12:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-07-21 04:05 am (UTC)sometimes i wish that they would unless the big dogs and destroy everything since life means nothing to most but then i think of the few and find some grain of hope.